Mon, 8 Sep 2008|
Bob Tippee, OGJ editor, invites questions from the floor for the keynote panelists at the Oil Sands Heavy Oil Technologies conference in Calgary, July 2008.
I. -- I would covered a lot of ground and I invite you to come to the microphone and and offer your. Offer your questions as you do so I've asked that you identify yourself and that's save -- whom you he represented. And hill with USC obviously CO2 sequestration is a big item on your agenda. In many places the sources -- -- are quite remote from the places where you wanna stick. How is over her position that some respect. Volunteers. -- -- Until that. I myself personally has to have talked to a number of pipeline companies with regard to -- implementing. -- -- -- -- -- Certain areas of Alberta to. Curia. CO2 to two different areas. In -- and recovery and for storage. That is. -- -- down the road right now we are working on number of four or five different projects. We will see how. How that works and then. If successful when successful we will and that. Looking to my point system. CO2 is -- corrosive substance. With regard to technical aspects with. We -- -- pipelines and not an expert but that. And would imagine and I'm sure many -- you know. I would hope that there are high -- -- and that and that. Had handled via the pipe and the corrosive and -- course. -- nature of this U2. Isn't cracked up -- Bob -- from the -- from the Idaho National Laboratory in United States. Just wondering project from -- technical policies side how to reach of your organizations. Use the status. Of the development vote. Apartment -- -- sequestration. Is it something that is. Fully proven right now and from the environmental side to believe -- -- go out -- -- -- just a matter by adding some economic incentives. Or -- there still technical issues that need to be addressed. Debt demonstration level. Before. The Providence or the states -- the world should make that commitment soon. This technology. -- Well I think -- that you know the technology's there to use it today if we want it to you but it's far too expensive. And the energy penalties -- too hard. So. It's only through. Experimentation. That have large scale that are gonna bring the technology down. But I think there's a lot of work needs to be done on the capture side especially. To bring the cost of -- Of the technology down so. In my view -- you gotta start somewhere. But you also got a built in the research and technology development components. That are gonna reduce the -- it's not a ready in my view of ready made technology today. But certainly were looking into the future. I see applications at a large scale. Commercial. Ready technology by say 20/20. That a lot of -- -- development in my -- has to be done. Especially on the capture side until -- Richard McFarland -- -- producers council in -- trying to India it provocative. -- then talked about the government's recent announcement of two billion dollars her. -- -- story. That's really dealing with this CO2 issue after it's generated. It would seem to need that. Significant emphasis should be -- should be based on actually. Reducing the amount of fuel to invest in -- but I don't see that come parable. Investment on the government side in terms of looking at technologies that actually. We do you -- generation. CO2. In my mind the investment in. New technologies. Or efficient production of oil sands by the government's probably -- -- 1%. Off that two billion dollars. Mean if I -- might arise and take all the stuff the storage. I have to -- eight. The company -- towards that stuff at long and it's stored there and the same thing applies to cut carbon capture and storage you have to monitor it. Tom for the lifetime. Off that story. If I actually reduce my lifestyle that don't generate a lot of stuff that needs to be stored. You know I don't have to pay a storage fee or a smaller storage the -- I think you know. A combination of approaches. Emphasizing story but also emphasizing. A reduction in the amount of -- CO2 that's generated. The is an appropriate. Balance. And then and Eddie come and content if you. Well thank you for that very good point absolutely. One thing that we did not mention here today. Was -- additional. Two billion dollars invested to not only in carbon sequestration but an additional two billion dollars. Ingested into. Mass transit here in Alberta. The premier also announced that this money would go to war to an expansion of -- to be systems and mass transit systems -- Alberta to decrease -- the carbon emissions in the in the year. That's one area where we as a government are trying to reduce the munitions. Of course there are. But there's there's a lot of money that is invested into research and technology here and continues to be invested two again limit our. -- -- -- Greenhouse -- Doctor if it -- Richard I would hate to be in your garage. But having said that I think the upper -- has invested greatly in in what I would call. Pilot testing of new technologies through the innovative energy technology program. Let's run the Department of Energy it's been going on for the last or your partners in -- round. Applications that are you know request for proposals coming and this -- the fourth round some. I -- -- thirty -- projects have been done under that program. There continues to. Gone great lengths to try to find. Projects that industry would want to do in the field. Am I guess the challenge is to step it up so I agree with you that we need to step it up. That'll last I think that the door -- open for investments. In new technologies that are going to reduce the CO2 emission. In moving into. Different approaches for production. I'm Robin Britain's grand river national lab. My questions -- -- rich regarding. The cumulative effects management you mentioned. And how that. Relates especially when you talk about groundwater and surface water. It just gently -- effects managed approach to water realistically. Okay. I think in general -- Paul Byrd has approached it EU's. Separating normal surface water and groundwater -- -- due to differences in knowledge really different -- in the immune a lot of uttered. Geology and -- -- geology because of wildcat exploration. Realistically that's -- learned a lot of -- geology. And so what we're trying to do is to. Focusing on integrating them at weird. Significant aquifers -- significant discharge acres and significant are vulnerable surface water -- -- aquifers. We're aiming at what we've gotten -- in the cold lake area which is treat. Can -- did management. Think we can look at the connection between aquifers and meet your late insane if I am over pump -- can see an effect so -- got to optimize how I use these. To optimize both the service -- and the groundwater resource. So. I think we are looking at it pretty holistic the unfortunate the idiots. In some areas boosting her -- knowledge and some -- -- her service. And then really focusing act significant points of interaction between -- -- -- -- John -- with hyperion power generation. I I I guess it's obvious -- the best way to handle carbon sequestration is not to dig it up in the first place. Is that is -- will it look -- carbon conversion. Not just sequestration and -- both Idaho and Los Alamos national lives are looking at how do you make liquid fuels out of carbon dioxide by capturing. You know atmosphere carbon dioxide even -- highly diluted. You get carpet you've got oxygen. Yet hydrogen. You got any kind of liquid fuel you want -- mean simple chemistry. The energy cost is high but. Given today's prices gasoline it's you know it's about equal so is is Alberta wanted to look not just -- -- he's he has -- carbon. Conversion as well. Doctor -- The answer is yes we're looking at all kinds of technologies and you know. Anything for micro algae to to anything that -- it reduce CO2 emissions that were an honest. You know I'm in my view were not technology. We're technology neutral so so in that sense when you say carbon sequestration. He also mean our conversion. Yes if there is potential there were talking at great. I'd like to ask a question I think. Alberta will show. The -- Not only in technology development and an operations but also I'm also on governance -- for these issues. I know that the a number of people in the audience are not from -- -- Canada and wondered just his background. I guess land could you. Describe. That the two climate change initiatives that are that are moving forward and can't -- that the federal program in Alberta program. Maybe maybe identify. Places where -- somewhere where they may conflict and described the political and jurisdictional processes that reconciles. Okay that's -- some interest in question. Bob I think -- should repeat that one more time if you don't mind just licenses. I didn't really this is a background question just for those of us who don't know how about how the the federal and provincial. Governments interact and play that you know we re we do we have rid of the two climate change and there's new initiatives in Canada one at that at the federal level wanted to. At the -- provincial level. How will -- will those be reconciled well how well. What. How should we watch it to see what's -- what's gonna come out and -- in the long run as it affects operators -- us. We we do work closely with the federal government with regard to our climate change our climate policies. We meet regularly. Member of the carbon sequestration of the development council and -- -- represented useful from the provincial government and the federal government be. We work together and that. We've got to have a wonderful working relationship which -- We we hope will continue. I know that there's so after some talk in teacher. The federal government perhaps putting some up. More and more regulations in place which we are expecting and we are preparing for -- and that is why we are. Working now to work to. Improving our our greenhouse gas emissions. Yes a comment in any question please Jim Davis -- -- -- lob Houston. First of all. It seems like -- -- has taken it very proactive. Very strong initiative to. To do what we all probably think is necessary to for the environmental protection. And I commend you on that seems like in these states. That there is no such initiative other than that being initiated by individual states. The government seems to be sort of waiting to see what's gonna happen. So we're right congratulations I irony and you -- the -- -- -- doing. Second of all my question we've talked about technical aspects we talk about legislative aspects. He talk about the legal aspects of carbon capture sequestration. If we do put carbon dioxide background. Who's responsible port and who's gonna get. Hung out to dry so to speak if that carpet somehow comes back on the ground. Part of the work of the council -- current capture and storage development council is to is to look in the liability and and future liability. Once carbon. Is the CO2 is in the ground. It is in working progress right now. It'll be. Certainly in the report come October to the government. With regard to that recommendations on how liability. How we will approach fact. To -- some discussion. Regarding perhaps be -- the industry. Having liability for the first ten years and then after that liability would be transfer over to the government but again we're working progress and and something that will be discussed in our council meetings. Glenn is right it's it is working progress which you can see a number of -- restrictions that are looking at this very seriously. Australia has done a lot of work in this area the have been looking -- The period. Operating. It carbon capture and sequestration project. As -- liability rests with me -- the -- -- operator. With with the industry. And in that period. Where that liability is transfered -- the operation ceases so there are models that we can build on. We don't have to start from scratch. Bob -- again from Idaho national lab. The the model but I'm thinking of this these horrendous example nuclear waste disposal -- the United States where there's been tremendous controversy around that. I'm wondering if in the discussions of CO2. Sequestration and disposal but is there any consideration given to issues specific to. Cross provincial. Storage. OC taking material from Ontario I got the Manitoba for disposal. We will clear -- you provincial. Controversies. About taking someone -- -- having to live with that potential liability even if -- the federal government or possibly -- government assumes some financial responsibility. There still -- the consequences salute -- As has been discussed the callers the assumption that always will be buried locally. Not only do we work closely with the federal government we also have. In in discussions and working closely with provinces wrote Canada with respect to. Our projects here and and and I know that profits is such a -- in in British Columbia are are very much. Watching Alberta right now and in what we're doing here. Theories as many do you know some. Some of carbon capture and storage and enhanced oil recovery being done. In -- -- and and a number of other areas. So. -- for -- cross border. Storage. Taking other provinces. CO2. No that has not been discussed -- in in in any of my meetings at all but I know that test. Our government -- -- your growth has been. Having close discussions with sketch -- in British Columbia with regard to. A future. It's. Possibilities that that could happen slowly. I see no more questioner is -- that any of the panelists liked to raise a question or make -- closing comment. -- just. He had mentioned a little bit about and you can there energy and just want to make it clear that the Alberta government has not -- A stand on on where they're gonna go with the development because -- energy right now. As -- And as mentioned earlier. There is a panel put together to. Investigate and to look at the possible use of nuclear energy here -- -- but the government is is very neutral right now. We error awaiting the report. And from that then we will. Then make a decision of work oracle listening to their energies -- just I would mention I think it. So this has been have been an excellent session. Please join me in thanking our panelists.